5 Responses

1. Sam Atwood

   August 7, 2007 at 07:28

   1

   I’ll try and kick off some discussion here.
   So reading Ephesians 5:15-33, I think it’s interesting to note that in verses 15-21, Paul is talking about living with one another in general, as Christian brothers and sisters. In verse 21 he says “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ“.
   So thinking about the question, and potential debate over wives submitting to their husbands, it’s not purely a marital virtue. We’ve probably all heard the argument that wives are meant to submit to their husbands as the church does to Christ, and that husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church (which I think is a pretty big task guys!).
   And while I think that, if both sides are ‘upholding’ their end of the deal (for want of a better way to put it) that should be a decent enough justification for such commands (that is, if the bloke’s doing his job properly, then submission should be a joy), consider as well that it is a principle that’s put forward here as a way to live with each other.
   But maybe we just need to rethink how we define “submission”…my thoughts are that nowadays we view it very negatively in our very “me” focussed world…
   Not sure if that made sense or is helpful.

2. Andrew Cork

   August 9, 2007 at 01:47

   2

   I agree with what you are saying Sam. It often amazes me how Ephesians 5:22-33 is taught without reference to the mutual submission clearly called for in 21.
   This seems to be an all too convenient omission where the speaker is attempting to outline a model in which the husband is the ‘ruler’ of the family.
   I think as we approach the topic on Sunday we need to remember:

   1. That we need to approach God’s word in context. This needs to be done at all times and not just when it suits a point of view we are seeking to assert.

   2. That God’s kingdom is the opposite of the human worldly kingdom. Jesus the ruler of the Universe showed us that to truly be great we need to serve. Serve everyone in all situations. This is a high calling, to serve and indeed submit to the needs of others. And as I read Eph 5:21 and the following I am reminded of the Christian husbands calling to submit to their wives by placing her needs before their own.

3. Andrew Cork

   August 14, 2007 at 09:10

   3

   I have to give total props to Neil for a really thoughtful talk on a difficult and extensive topic. I would have been happy to have just read Eph 5:21-33 but 15-33 was a joy to behold!
   Neil thanks for your faithful and Godly leadership of our church.

4. The Phatman (Neil A)

   August 15, 2007 at 10:20

   4

   You’re very kind Cork… Just pleased that the talk was helpful ;-)

5. Bruce C

   August 31, 2007 at 10:43

   5

   Neil: I echo Corkie’s praise – thankyou.

   I think most people underestimate the whole marriage ‘deal’. There is a lot of thinking about having marriages as a balanced 50-50 arrangement (I used to think this way as well) – and this might be the context of most of the ‘submission’ discussions.

   But it isn’t a 50-50 deal… its a 100-100 deal. And both parts of the 100% include submission, forgiveness, patience, responsibility, acceptance and work. And even more so when children in the the equation.

   The benefits are tremendous though, and I recommend it.